1 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,680 Humphrey, what are you havering about? 2 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,310 I'm simply saying we can't take the Minister's approval for granted. 3 00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:51,074 The Italian government have offered a massive contract 4 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,516 to manufacture propanol at our Merseyside plant, 5 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,992 which means saving a plant we were going to have to close, 6 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,948 saving jobs, earning export royalties. 7 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:07,352 - He has to give us the go-ahead. - But if the Minister thinks... 8 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:09,192 Ministers don't think! 9 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,111 Don't talk to me about Ministers. 10 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,829 I've been chairman of British Chemical Corporation forten years, 11 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,629 and in that time dealt with nineteen different Ministers. 12 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,234 They've usually not had time to see me, 13 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:28,349 because they're too busy bribing Trade Union leaders not to strike. 14 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,671 - They've never bribed anybody. - Oh, no? 15 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,310 "Have a quango, Tom; a knighthood, Dick; a peerage, Harry". 16 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,155 - But the Minister's worried... - Of course he's worried! 17 00:01:39,320 --> 00:01:41,595 If I'd neverdone anything to worry 18 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,433 those vote-grabbing baby-kissing jellies, 19 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,068 we'd have gone down the tube ten years ago! 20 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:51,199 - But propanol contains metadioxin. - So what? 21 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,114 Dioxin was released at Seveso. It can damage the foetus. 22 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:59,558 That's dioxin, for Christ's sake! Metadioxin is an inert compound. 23 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,996 It's been given a clean bill of health by Washington. 24 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:04,991 The Henderson Committee, which you set up, 25 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:06,434 will give it the OK, too. 26 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,434 I know, Wally, but the name could be politically sensitive. 27 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,433 But I've taken metadioxin out of the proposal. 28 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,034 - I call it propanol. - Very wise of you. 29 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,590 - You told me to. - Very wise of me! 30 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:25,596 But the Ministermay raise no objections, it just needs tact. 31 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,275 Fine. In that case, there's no problem. 32 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,273 I'll have a tactful word with Hacker 33 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,193 and persuade the blancmange myself. 34 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,031 Don't take this amiss, Wally, 35 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,839 but I might just be able to manage 36 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,151 without your unique... brand of tact. 37 00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:49,518 - This is wonderful news, Humphrey. - Yes, Minister. 38 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:55,152 We turn a run-down plant from loss-maker into a profitable unit, 39 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,153 the largest manufacturer of propanol in Europe. 40 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,949 - Yes, Minister. - Equipment made in UK factories. 41 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:06,033 Income for the local authorities, foreign exchange from exports. 42 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,430 - Too good to be true! - It is true. 43 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,752 Good old propanol... What is propanol, actually? 44 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:17,711 It used to be made with dioxin until the Seveso explosion, 45 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:22,510 then they developed a safe compound, metadioxin. 46 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:27,231 The Italian factory is sealed off so they've asked the BCC to make it. 47 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,630 - An ill wind. - Quite so. 48 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,076 - But this stuff is perfectly safe? - Perfectly. 49 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:37,631 Weak Ministers might have doubts over the similarity of the names, 50 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,394 but no one with any backbone would be deflected 51 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:42,312 from such a beneficial project 52 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,710 on such a useless pretext. 53 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,515 I know just the sort of Minister you mean. Political jellyfish. 54 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,513 Terrified of taking any decision. 55 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,672 Afterall, every decision upsets someone, doesn't it? 56 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,958 Good government is doing what's right, not just what's popular. 57 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,953 - Absolutely, Minister. - But this will be popular? 58 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,795 - Very popular. - Humphrey, I want to be sure. 59 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,077 You're not asking me to make a courageous decision, are you? 60 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:12,996 Of course not, Minister. 61 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,197 Good, good. Should I take it to Cabinet? 62 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,033 - I think the less said, the better. - Why? 63 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,634 Although metadioxin is totally harmless, 64 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,110 the name may cause anxiety in ignorant minds. 65 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:28,989 Humphrey, you're talking about my Cabinet colleagues. 66 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,116 I was referring to the Friends of the Earth. 67 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:37,235 Yes? Joan Littlerhas arrived, MP for Liverpool South West. 68 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,038 Know what she wants? 69 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:40,997 She's the Prime Minister's PPS, 70 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,549 and the new plant is in her constituency. 71 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:48,589 - Showher in. If you'll excuse us? - The PM's PPS? I think I'll stay. 72 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,800 Joan Littler, memberfor Liverpool South West. 73 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,714 - Do you know Humphrey Appleby? - Delighted to meet you. 74 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:57,677 Do take a seat. 75 00:04:57,840 --> 00:05:00,354 - Thank you, Bernard. - Bernard... 76 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,520 Now, what can I do foryou? 77 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:09,231 Jim, what's the British Chemical Corporation up to in my constituency? 78 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:14,030 They'll be announcing a very exciting project, with new jobs. 79 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,875 Yes... but there's some very worrying rumours. 80 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,508 - Such as? - Rumours of dangerous chemicals. 81 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,035 All chemicals are dangerous... 82 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:27,512 The Ministermeans the rumours are unfounded, no cause for alarm. 83 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:32,356 Can I have your assurance there'll be a full public enquiry? 84 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:34,559 Not a bad idea... 85 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:39,191 The Ministerwas about to say there's no need foran enquiry. 86 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:45,071 - A report will be issued shortly. - I came here to talk to Jim. 87 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,313 - You are talking to him. - But he's not answering, you are! 88 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,517 - The Ministerand I are of one mind. - Whose? Yours? 89 00:05:55,560 --> 00:06:00,554 I've heard this factory made the chemical that poisoned Seveso! 90 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:02,836 - That's not true. - Isn't it? 91 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,913 The chemical in Seveso was dioxin. This is metadioxin. 92 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,550 - That's virtually the same thing. - Just a similar name. 93 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,156 It's the same name with "meta" stuck on the front. 94 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,518 - That makes all the difference. - Why? What does "meta" mean? 95 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,633 - What does "meta" mean, Humphrey? - "With", "after" or "beyond". 96 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:29,828 From the Greek, of course. "After" dioxin or "beyond" dioxin. 97 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,073 If it's in the accusative, it's "beyond orafter", 98 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:38,199 with the genitive it's "with", as in Latin, as you no doubt recall. 99 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,830 The ablative is used forwords needing "with" to precede them. 100 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,879 But of course, there isn't an ablative in Greek. 101 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,156 - Well done, Bernard. - Thank you. 102 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:55,036 - You see? - Not exactly, no. 103 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,670 - I thought thatwas perfectly plain. - What I insist on knowing 104 00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:03,231 is what is the actual difference between dioxin and metadioxin. 105 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,312 Metadioxin is an inert compound of dioxin. 106 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,393 I think I follow that, Humphrey, 107 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,711 but could you explain it a little more clearly? 108 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,476 - In what sense, Minister? - What does "inert" mean? 109 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,551 It means it's not... 110 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:22,594 ... ert. 111 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,470 Wouldn't "ert" a fly. 112 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,508 - What did you say, Bernard? - Nothing, Minister. 113 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:35,875 What does that mean in practical terms? 114 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:37,234 You mean chemically? 115 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:41,109 - Yes, chemically. - What does it mean chemically? 116 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,192 I can't explain it in layman's language... 117 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,875 - Do you know any chemistry? - Of course not, Minister. 118 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,395 I was in the scholarship form. 119 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:52,394 Classics. 120 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,190 - And what's a compound? - Don't you know any chemistry? 121 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:57,588 No. Do you? 122 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:03,034 - We ought to, oughtn't we? - A compound is a... 123 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,753 You know what compound interest is? 124 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,514 Yes, well, a jolly good thing. 125 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,035 That's the sort of thing a compound is. 126 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:15,559 That's it, then. 127 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,998 To sum up, I think we're all of the same mind, broadly speaking. 128 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,469 We're ready to go ahead. 129 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:24,712 I've said no such thing! 130 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,439 The only difference is in the name, 131 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,479 dioxin and metadioxin, like... Littlerand Hitler. 132 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,436 Not that you're like Hitler because yourname's similar! 133 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:40,795 - That's not the point. - What is the point? 134 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,872 The point is this factory is in my constituency! 135 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,510 It'll be good forthe constituency, more jobs, more money. 136 00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:51,389 The only people we'll offend are a few environmentalists. 137 00:08:51,560 --> 00:08:54,711 At most, it won't cost us more than 100 votes. 138 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,231 My majority is 91. 139 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,909 Not to mention the three marginal constituencies bordering mine! 140 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,036 Could I intervene just once more? 141 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,034 The case forthe BCC manufacturing propanol is overwhelming. 142 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:10,315 Overwhelming. 143 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:14,359 Great jobs, increased income and secure, profitable export orders. 144 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:16,078 - Export orders. - Furthermore... 145 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,596 The drug has been declared safe by Washington, 146 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,069 - Washington. - We're preparing a report, too. 147 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,071 The Minister is confident 148 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:28,313 that this scheme is to the advantage of your constituency and the country. 149 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,109 If it proves not to be safe, I won't allow its manufacture here. 150 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,397 But if the report says it is safe, that'd be absurd, wouldn't it? 151 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:40,114 I'm not satisfied with that, Jim. 152 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,156 Rememberthat the party made you an MP, 153 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:48,916 and you can't be a Minister if your party loses the next election. 154 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,115 You still don't look happy, Minister. 155 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:59,637 Suppose the report isn't as conclusive as you say. 156 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,156 - Oughtn't I to meet this Henderson? - No need. 157 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,154 He's a brilliant Cambridge biochemist, chosen with some care. 158 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,596 Suppose he produces a cautious, wait-and-see report? 159 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,752 We don't publish it. We use the American report instead. 160 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,114 Fine! 161 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,594 - You mean we suppress it? - No, we just don't publish it. 162 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:25,231 - What's the difference? - All the difference in the world! 163 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,039 Suppression is the instrument of dictatorships. 164 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,112 We don't talk of that sort of thing in a free country. 165 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,714 We take a democratic decision not to publish. 166 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,834 Fine. What am I to say to the press and parliament? 167 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,117 "We hoped the report would say it was a wise decision. 168 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,909 But we've cocked it up so we'll pretend the report doesn't exist". 169 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,355 - Very droll. - What would I say? 170 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,432 There's a Government procedure for suppress... 171 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,512 - ...deciding not to publish reports. - Really? 172 00:10:54,680 --> 00:10:57,194 You simply discredit them. 173 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:58,839 Good heavens! 174 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:01,395 How? 175 00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:06,719 Stage One, give your reasons in terms of the public interest. 176 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,919 - Hint at security considerations... - Mind if I make a note? 177 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:13,716 This could be useful for discrediting 178 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,633 some of the party's idiotic research documents. 179 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:22,113 The report could put pressure on Government and be misinterpreted. 180 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,989 Anything could be misinterpreted. The Sermon on the Mount could be! 181 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:31,598 Indeed, it could be argued the Sermon should not have been published. 182 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,270 A most irresponsible document. 183 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,908 All that stuff about the meek inheriting the earth 184 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,550 could do irreparable damage to the defence budget. 185 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,550 I suppose you're right. What else? 186 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:49,191 Say it's better to wait for a more detailed study over longertime. 187 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,633 - Suppose there isn't one? - Commission one. 188 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,155 Gives you even more time to play with. 189 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,869 - All this is Stage One? - Yes. In Stage Two... 190 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,474 discredit the evidence you're not publishing. 191 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:06,270 - How, if you're not publishing it? - It's easier if it's not published. 192 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,512 Do it by press leaks, of course, not directly. 193 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:13,036 Say it leaves important questions unanswered, 194 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:14,997 the evidence is inconclusive, 195 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,118 the figures are open to other interpretations, 196 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,795 that certain findings are contradictory, 197 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,714 and that some of the main conclusions have been questioned. 198 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,474 - Suppose they haven't? - Then question them! 199 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:30,878 Then they have! 200 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,350 But you'd have to go through it with a fine-toothed comb. 201 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:39,195 No, no, no. You'd say all these things without reading it. 202 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:41,956 There's always some questions unanswered. 203 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,634 - Such as? - The ones that weren't asked. 204 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,037 - That's Stage Two? - Yes. In Stage Three... 205 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,634 you undermine recommendations. 206 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,395 "Not a basis for long-term decisions. 207 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:56,916 Not sufficient information 208 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,230 on which to base a valid assessment". 209 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,193 "Not really any need for a fundamental rethink of policies". 210 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:08,353 "Broadly speaking, endorses current practice". It's easy. 211 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,351 - That works? - Nearly always. 212 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,273 - Suppose it doesn't? - Move on to Stage Four. 213 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:14,475 Stage Four? 214 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:18,189 Discredit the man who produced the report. 215 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:19,952 Off the record. 216 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:24,159 Say that he's harbouring a grudge against the Government 217 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,312 or, betterstill, that he used to be a consultant 218 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,596 to a multi-national company. 219 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,957 - Supposing he wasn't? - Then he's hoping to be. 220 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,839 Everybody's hoping to be a consultant to a multi-national. 221 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:41,279 Orhe's trying for a knighthood orvice-chancellorship. 222 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,034 There are endless possibilities. 223 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:45,599 Excuse me. 224 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:50,038 The press officerrang to say there's an item on the news. 225 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,430 Yes, yes. Why wasn't I told? 226 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,797 The BCC aren't obliged to clear itwith us. 227 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,710 A rowhas blown up on Merseyside 228 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,953 about a plan for the BCC to manufacture propanol 229 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,350 under licence forthe Italian government. 230 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,193 Apparently, propanol contains metadioxin, 231 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,830 which the BCC claims to be completely harmless. 232 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,468 It is a compound of dioxin, 233 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:21,270 the chemical released after an explosion at Seveso 234 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:22,714 in July 1976, 235 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,077 spreading poisonous dust over a 4-mile radius. 236 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:32,795 On Merseyside, protesters voiced their opposition to the BCC scheme 237 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:34,871 outside the factory gates. 238 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,918 I'll tell you what we'll do. 239 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,516 Sir Wally can take his poison chemicals somewhere else! 240 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,310 I've a daughter expecting a baby, 241 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,869 and my grandchild's not gonna be deformed 242 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:54,871 for them bloody Eyeties'sake! 243 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,798 If the Government cared about people, they'd never allow it! 244 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,672 The BCC said a report on the safety of propanol 245 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,355 was due to be published shortly by Administrative Affairs. 246 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,150 And now abroad again... 247 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,519 - This metadioxin is dynamite. - It's totally harmless. 248 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,910 Only chemically, not politically. 249 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,277 - It can't hurt anyone. - It could finish me off! 250 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,597 Yes? Minister, Number 10 on the phone. 251 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,472 The political office, the PM's just seen the news. 252 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:42,919 Hello, Jim here! 253 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:45,838 Yes, I just saw that, too. 254 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,195 We don't need to be too worried about a little local difficulty. 255 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,793 Not in view of the jobs and exports... 256 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:57,198 No, not many jobs. 257 00:15:58,480 --> 00:15:59,993 Ninety, I think. 258 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:01,794 Yes, but... 259 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:04,234 You do, do you? 260 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:06,273 Yes, well... 261 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,112 I was coming round to that viewpoint myself. 262 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:18,314 Humphrey... 263 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,357 - Something just struck me. - I noticed. 264 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,796 There are arguments against this scheme. 265 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,598 - Minister, you've already agreed... - It could lead to a loss of... 266 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,870 ...public confidence. - You mean votes? 267 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:44,558 Votes? No, no. It's not the votes that are a consideration at all. 268 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,314 But you see, it's the public will. 269 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:49,198 This is a democracy... 270 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,148 - and the people don't like it. - They are ignorant and misguided. 271 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,356 It was the people who elected me! 272 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,317 In a week, the whole thing will have blown over, 273 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:05,917 and in a year's time, we'll have a safe and successful factory. 274 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:07,638 Aweek's a long time in politics. 275 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:09,791 A year's a short time in Government. 276 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,077 You're in Government, I'm in politics and the PM is not pleased. 277 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,596 - With the greatest respect... - Going to insult me again? 278 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:19,550 You're putting party before country. 279 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,029 Can't you think of a new cliché? 280 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:27,115 Minister, a new cliché could be said to be a contradiction in terms. 281 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,113 Humphrey, you lead a sheltered life. 282 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,714 I intend to survive and I'm not crossing the PM. 283 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:37,590 Why must you be so concerned with climbing the greasy pole? 284 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,308 The greasy pole is important. I have to climb it. 285 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:41,708 Why? 286 00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:44,997 'Cause it's there! 287 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,355 The editor of the Times, please. Thank you, Bernard. 288 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,033 How come the Times knows about the report before I do? 289 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,760 - There's been a leak. - I know that! 290 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,915 Itwas "Confidential". I only got a draft last night. 291 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,389 - At least itwasn't "Restricted". - Why? 292 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,393 "Restricted" means itwas in the papers yesterday. 293 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,077 "Confidential" means it won't be in the papers till today. 294 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,151 Who leaked this? Humphrey? 295 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,040 - I'm sure he didn't, Minister. - Are you? 296 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,789 - He probably didn't. - No? 297 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:28,555 - It might have been someone else. - These leaks are a disgrace! 298 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,679 - People think it's the politicians. - It has been known. 299 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,549 In my opinion, we're farmore leaked against than leaking. 300 00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:43,876 "Political cowardice to reject the BCC proposal... craven expediency". 301 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:45,473 "Hackerhas no choice". 302 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,589 Humphrey thinks he's got me committed! 303 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,035 It's an unofficial leak of a draft report. 304 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:52,792 You're committed to nothing. 305 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,474 Does the report give you a way out? 306 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,917 SirWally McFarlane is waiting to see you. 307 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,355 All right. But he's wasting his time. 308 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,670 - Come in, please, Sir Wally. - Thank you. Morning. 309 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,274 - Morning. - May I join you, Minister? 310 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,917 - Lf you like. Do sit down. - Thank you, Jim. 311 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,870 - Now... - Thank you, Bernard. 312 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,352 Sorry about that. 313 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:27,796 I see from the press the Henderson Report comes clearly on ourside. 314 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:32,272 - I've seen that, too. - That committee leaks like a sieve. 315 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,551 So there's no real case for refusing permission for the new plant. 316 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,032 - I'm not sure yet. - Now look, Jim... 317 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:46,069 We've been working on this for two years, it's very important. 318 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:52,509 I'm the chairman, and I tell you as a chemist, metadioxin is safe. 319 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:54,989 You experts always think you're right. 320 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,994 The more inexpert you are, the more likely you are to be right? 321 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:00,957 Ministers are not experts. 322 00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:04,237 They're chosen because they know nothing. 323 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:05,515 You admit that? 324 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,711 Nothing about technical details. 325 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:14,029 Ministers must take a broaderview, that's why I cannot commit yet. 326 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:15,428 Look, Hacker! 327 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,068 This is the wrong decision and you know it. 328 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:19,753 It's cowardly and craven! 329 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,309 - I am not cowardly... - Sit down! 330 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:28,474 You'll lose a few votes from a few people in those constituencies? 331 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:30,756 - It's pathetic! - It's politics! 332 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:32,114 Exactly! 333 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,472 I'll be writing to the Secretary of State for Industry. 334 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,150 I am prepared to resign if you block this one! 335 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,788 How do you feel that went, Minister? 336 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,751 - We'll have to get another chairman. - Get another? 337 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,480 Nobody would accept a job like that! 338 00:20:55,640 --> 00:21:00,316 Nobody wants to be chairman of a nationalised industry! Instant ruin! 339 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,951 They may as well accept the golden handshake the day they start. 340 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:08,715 - We'll find someone. - Some useless American geriatric. 341 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:10,438 Not necessarily. 342 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,831 How do you expect to find a decent replacement, 343 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,754 when we forced his predecessor to resign fortaking a sound decision, 344 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,036 which we blocked for political reasons? 345 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,034 - I have no choice. - A Minister can do what he likes. 346 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:25,679 It's the people's will. 347 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,195 I am their leader. I must follow them. 348 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,071 My hands are clean. 349 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,869 I thought itwas rather difficult to keep one's hands clean 350 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,429 while climbing the greasy pole. 351 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,549 We must stop Wally making a fuss. 352 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,518 Press conferences accusing me of lack of faith. 353 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,229 - Interviews on Panorama. - What am I to do? 354 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:56,030 If I stop the scheme, the Times will accuse me of political cowardice. 355 00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:01,194 If I let it go ahead, the Mirror will say I'm murdering unborn babies. 356 00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:05,353 If only the report had any doubt about the safety of metadioxin. 357 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,830 - Are you sure it doesn't, Minister? - Not as it stands. 358 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,638 - Henderson's a Cambridge man? - Yes. 359 00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:16,079 - Which college? - King's. Why? 360 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,157 Nothing. Just wondered if it was my old college. 361 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:21,958 Weren't you at the LSE? 362 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:26,393 Yes, so I was. 363 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,960 - Have you got his file? - It's with the report. 364 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:32,634 - Got a Cambridge telephone...? - You do realise, 365 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,791 not that you have any such intention, 366 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:36,996 but it would be most improper to influence 367 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,037 an independent report of this nature? 368 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,316 Most improper! Out of the question. 369 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:45,439 Just it might be nice to pop down to have tea with my old friend, 370 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,479 R.A. Crichton, Provost of King's. Get him on the phone. 371 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,552 Yes, Minister. Get me King's College, Cambridge. 372 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:57,430 Who knows? Professor Henderson might drop in for tea. 373 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,114 That'd be a happy coincidence, wouldn't it? 374 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:04,193 - Perfectly natural. - Nothing improper about that. 375 00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:07,875 - How can a coincidence be improper? - Myfeeling entirely. 376 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:10,635 Yes? 377 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:13,913 Lord Crichton, please. 378 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,832 How's the move from the Commons to the Lords? 379 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,355 Like moving from animals to vegetables. 380 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,671 - Professor Henderson's here. - Good to see you. 381 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,479 Come and meet an old friend, Jim Hacker. 382 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,792 - Jim, this is Professor Henderson. - Professor Henderson! 383 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,110 I didn't expect to see the Minister. 384 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,239 - What a coincidence! - Yes, what a coincidence! 385 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,675 - You know each other? - We haven't met. 386 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,958 - I'm writing a report forhim. - Well, what a coincidence. 387 00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:58,635 - Yes, what a coincidence! - Extraordinary coincidence. 388 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,588 - You're happy with my report? - Absolutely. Delighted. 389 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,673 - You must've worked very hard. - Most of it was done by Washington. 390 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,150 Excuse me, I'll go and help with the tea. 391 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,835 Tell me, have you everwritten a Government report before? 392 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,232 - No. - Yourname will be on it forever. 393 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:19,719 "Henderson Report". 394 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,589 - It's a kind of immortality. - I hadn't thought of it like that. 395 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,636 - But if it were to go wrong... - Go wrong? 396 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,079 If this metadioxin isn't as safe as you say... 397 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,274 your career... 398 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:35,959 Very courageous! 399 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,472 None of the standard tests show any evidence of teratogenic toxicity. 400 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,355 - Standard tests? Quite. - What do you mean? 401 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:51,275 Well, I was making a few notes on the train coming down. 402 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,273 I'm not a biochemist, but it would appear 403 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:59,195 that the US report leaves some important questions unanswered. 404 00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:03,799 Some of the evidence is inconclusive, some findings have been questioned, 405 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,474 the figures are open to interpretation, 406 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:12,078 and different results might come from a more detailed study. 407 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,711 - Obviously, but... - But if anything did go wrong, 408 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,668 a delayed effect, the press would go straight to your report. 409 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:26,071 And if it turned out that you'd everdone... 410 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,949 laboratory trials fora multi-national drug company... 411 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,000 - Thatwas 15 years ago. - 14. 412 00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:36,715 You know what the press is like. 413 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,872 No smoke without a fire. It could be a millstone! 414 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:45,432 The popular press would be merciless, if anything went wrong: 415 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,558 "Death Agony of Henderson Report Victims". 416 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:50,434 Yes... 417 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:52,594 Yes...! 418 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,751 I don't know what to do! 419 00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:00,278 I can't alterthe evidence, the report says it's a safe drug. 420 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,194 - Quite. I see you have no choice. - Stop talking shop. 421 00:26:04,360 --> 00:26:07,796 Our Professor of Economics is dying to talk to you. 422 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:17,032 You're not worried about this report? I've done lots of these things. 423 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,671 It's the phrasing of the conclusion, that's all the press everread. 424 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,910 Now... how does it end? 425 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:29,837 "On existing evidence, the committee can see no reason not to proceed". 426 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,471 Well, it's just a question of a tidy bit of re-drafting. 427 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,950 "While the committee feel there's no reason 428 00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:41,078 not to proceed on existing evidence, 429 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:46,109 it must be emphasised that metadioxin is a recent compound, 430 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,558 and itwould be irresponsible to deny, after further research, 431 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,793 its manufacture might be proved to be associated with health risks". 432 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,632 Yes, that seems perfectly fair. 433 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,355 Could you just say that again? 434 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,071 Better than that... I'll jot it down for you. 435 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,152 The Minister for Administrative Affairs, James Hacker, 436 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,153 has announced he'll not give approval 437 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,709 for the BCC to make propanol. 438 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,236 The Henderson Committee, while generally approving the drug, 439 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,996 said it could not deny that future research might disclose risks. 440 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,676 Mr Hackermade his announcement today while visiting BCC's factory, 441 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,274 where he was greeted by an enthusiastic crowd. 442 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,037 And now sport. Following last night's defeat... 443 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:40,675 Well, Minister? 444 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:42,399 Well, Humphrey? 445 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,793 - Do you feel like a hero? - Indeed I do. 446 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,953 - And Number 10 will be delighted. - One of the worst decisions ever! 447 00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:52,998 And one of the best political decisions I've made. 448 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,030 What do you think, Bernard? 449 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:57,755 Well... 450 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:03,314 bearing everything in mind and after due consideration... 451 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,677 considering all the implications and points of view... 452 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,628 well, in otherwords, in fact, I am bound to say... 453 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,438 you look awfully good on television, Minister. 454 00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:20,114 Humphrey, can we manage a CBE for Henderson? 455 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,193 Certainly not! He's unreliable and lacking in judgement. 456 00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:26,191 I can't think why he cast doubt 457 00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:28,669 on his whole report in that final paragraph. 458 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,152 I think he has excellent judgement, enormous stature and great charm. 459 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,479 I thought you said you'd nevermet him. 460 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,080 I meant intellectual stature, Humphrey. 461 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,559 And charm? 462 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,397 He writes with charm. 463 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,112 Doesn't he, Bernard? 464 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,510 Oh, yes, Minister.